Listen to the original at Lenny’s Podcast ↗lennysnewsletter.com
By Lenny Rachitsky · with Wes Kao · lennysnewsletter.com · @lennysan on X · YouTube · LinkedIn
Wes Kao, co-founder of Maven and former collaborator of Seth Godin on the altMBA, shares her path from retail to course creation and tech. The conversation covers five practical communication ideas: the super specific how, the content hierarchy of BS, state change in meetings, eyes lighting up, and managing up, plus writing craft and how to say no.
01Key learnings
- Spend less time on why an idea matters and more on the specific how: concrete steps, nuances, and examples that let people apply it.
- Cut backstory and preamble; start right before the juicy part of the story, as Wes puts it, 'right before you get eaten by the bear.'
- Recognize that formats like Twitter or keynotes allow more BS, while courses and cohort settings demand rigor because students can challenge you.
- Punctuate monologues every three to five minutes with a state change such as a poll, chat prompt, breakout room, or screen-share switch to keep audiences engaged.
- Watch for eyes-lighting-up moments in conversations and pitches; treat visible engagement or boredom as real data and build on what resonates.
- Manage up proactively by sharing context on decisions, judging whether a decision is reversible, and avoiding surprises for your manager.
- Lead with your recommendation or bottom line, then add context, so readers who agree can stop early and skeptics can keep reading.
- When saying no, talk through trade-offs and reprioritization instead, so the other person sees what gives way and can weigh in.
“if you embrace that if you manage your boss, they're going to appreciate you much more, you're going to get more opportunities”Wes Kao · Lenny’s Podcast · 00:00:14
“Start right before your friend left a Clif Bar out in their tent and you all almost got mauled by a bear.”Wes Kao · Lenny’s Podcast · 00:17:48
“If we just acknowledge reality and this person looks bored, they look bored, that is data. Don't ignore that data.”Wes Kao · Lenny’s Podcast · 00:27:08
02Frameworks mentioned
Super Specific HowContent Hierarchy of BSState Change MethodStart Right Before You Get Eaten by the BearPrioritize and Communicate
Summary and takeaways written by PM Atlas; quotes are short excerpts. © the original author.