Listen to the original at Lenny’s Podcast ↗youtube.com
By Lenny Rachitsky · with Barbra Gago · lennysnewsletter.com · @lennysan on X · YouTube · LinkedIn
Barbra Gago is a B2B SaaS marketing leader who helped build Miro's global brand and visual collaboration category, and previously led go-to-market at Greenhouse and CultureAmp; she is now building Pando, an employee progression platform. The conversation covers when to create a new product category versus winning an existing one, the mechanics of category creation, rebranding, building brand and values, and designing opinionated software.
01Key learnings
- Create a new category only when the scope is big enough to matter and you can see signals like emerging budget lines or buyer language; otherwise, win within the existing category.
- Abandon category creation quickly if customers keep calling you by the existing category name, as Greenhouse learned with applicant tracking, and invest instead in elevating that category.
- A category is only real once competitors and analysts validate it, so welcome new entrants who adopt your category label as proof it exists.
- Build a category by listening to how customers describe their pain points, then pair PR and thought leadership with relationships with analysts and directories like G2 that shape how buyers classify products.
- Rebrand early, after product-market fit but before scale, and keep visual nods to the original brand so loyal early customers feel respected.
- Run a rebrand like a product sprint with clear owners and transparent steps, since naming, legal, domains, and collateral all have to move together.
- Make brand an extension of company values and people, so every customer touchpoint expresses the brand without needing to train each interaction.
- Keep company values short and memorable; overly long value lists are hard to remember and fail to shape behavior.
“When you're building a category, you need to make sure that there is a category that's validated by analysts and directory sites and things like…”Barbra Gago · Lenny’s Podcast · 00:00:00
“it's actually okay when new companies come in that say they're that category because it's just validating the fact that there is a new category.”Barbra Gago · Lenny’s Podcast · 00:09:21
“the more the brand is interchangeable with the people at the company and the company itself, the stronger it is, the more authentic it is.”Barbra Gago · Lenny’s Podcast · 00:39:24
02Frameworks mentioned
Summary and takeaways written by PM Atlas; quotes are short excerpts. © the original author.