Lenny’s Podcast · Podcast episode · Building AI products · Startups & founders

Inside the expert network training every frontier AI model

Lenny Rachitskywith Garrett LordAug 24, 202585 min▶ 18K
SourceLenny’s Podcast
KindPodcast episode
PublishedAug 24, 2025
Readers▶ 18K
Originalyoutube.com ↗
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Garrett Lord, co-founder and CEO of Handshake, discusses how his career-networking platform built a fast-growing AI data labeling business by leveraging its network of PhDs and students to create expert training data for frontier AI labs. The conversation covers what post-training data work actually involves, why experts have replaced generalists, and how he incubated the new business inside an existing company.

01Key learnings

  • Post-training, not pre-training, now drives most model gains, so high-quality expert data targeting specific capability gaps is where value concentrates.
  • The labeling market has shifted from cheap generalist labor to domain experts, so the right supply is credentialed specialists like PhDs and master's students.
  • Access to a trusted audience is the real moat in human data; owning an audience removes customer acquisition costs compared with competitors buying ads and recruiting on LinkedIn.
  • Model builders care most about quality, then volume, then speed; fast turnaround on data that measurably improves a model is what wins repeat business.
  • When incubating a new business inside an existing one, dedicate separate teams, offices, onboarding, and compensation so people aren't split between responsibilities.
  • Use a metrics-driven operating cadence from day one and make one directly responsible individual per initiative, chosen for capability rather than function.
  • Look at what your company already owns that could become a new opportunity when a technology shift changes what's valuable, as Handshake did with its student network.
“We like to say the only moat in human data is access to an audience.”Garrett Lord · Lenny’s Podcast · 00:30:58
“The models have gotten so good that the generalists are no longer needed. What they really need is experts.”Garrett Lord · Lenny’s Podcast · 00:10:52
“There will never be a time like this. I've never seen anything like it, I doubt I'll ever feel anything like this in business again…”Garrett Lord · Lenny’s Podcast · 00:00:00

Summary and takeaways written by PM Atlas; quotes are short excerpts. © the original author.